MMS reaction with lime juice

[Doug Nash]

There is a substance called MMS sold on the internet. It is an solution of 22 percent sodium chlorite dissolved in water. What is the product of the reaction when two drops of MMS are mixed with ten drops of lime juice?

[NickM79]

Yeah hi there! It makes chlorine dioxide, my friend; a potent virus and bacteria killer. Let's see if I can figure ths one out for you. First we need to find out the compound chemical formula for citric acid, which is the active ingredient in the lime juice that activates the Sodium Chlorite. And we need the chemical formula for the chlorite. Let's start with that and I will get back to you. See my post about the lugols and vinegar? I just put that up yesterday. Seems we may have similar interest or maybe you are just a kid scientist. Let me know. I prefer to use lime juice myself, though I have some citric just in case I want to use it for my MMS. I found 50/50 is not so bad with the lime juice/citric.

Peace.

NMM

[expert]

Nick is right, but partially only. Sodium chlorite NaClO₂ is really produces chlorine dioxide ClO₂ when reacts with acid:
5 NaClO₂ + 4 HCl → 5 NaCl + 4 ClO₂ + 2 H₂O
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorine_dioxide

There is a little "detail" though. Lime juice is not just an acid and it’s not the HCl acid. Lime juice contains citric acid that is a notorious reducer while ClO₂ is a notorious oxidizer.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC_2637791/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... figure/F₁/
It’s very unlikely that ClO₂ will be produced from a highly reducing media. If you feel any smell when you mix them then it’s probably chlorine Cl₂. It’s also a strong oxidizer and bacterial killer, but chlorine has a chance to partially escape from lime juice. In fact you want it to escape from the juice because anything that reacts creates strong carcinogens:
"Formation of these alledged carcinogens and mutagens also takes place by treating diluted aqueous solutions of frozen orange juice concentrate with such chlorine solutions"
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/conten ... a762520053
As for ClO₂ from lime juice, no chance!

[NickM79]

I don't think Mr. Expert has looked at any of the works of Mr. Jim Humble. Obviously lime juice works because I have tried it and it makes the same smell as pure citric solution when mixed with sodium chlorite. And the solution turns that same yellow green color. Plus documentation shows that it is working to cure people of numerous acute infections just the same as regular citric mix, although it is slightly less potent. This is one point to make regarding using lime juice, and that is that since it contains some vitamin C(ascorbic acid, for expert) this partially cancels out the reaction by about half so you are not getting quite as strong of a mix and it makes it easier on the palate and stomach drank plain or mixed with no-vitamin c juice. HOWEVER you should not take or mix it with any ORANGE JUICE or take any vitamin C within two hours of taking MMS solution or else it will cancel out the benefit.

MMS has been PROVEN in Africa to, yes, CURE Malaria. It works. God bless Mr. Jim Humble. I have his book.

[expert]

No, I didn't look at works of Mr. Humble because he’s not a scientist (yes, aerospace engineer, but not a scientist). I only looked at his phrase “Scientists around the world are using MMS to treat HIV, cancer, arthritis and many of the most horrific disease known. It does so by “stealing” electrons from the pathogen, causing them to explode and die. The main ingredient in MMS is sodium chlorite, a common ingredient in many disinfectants and approved by the Food and Drug Administration for contact with fruits and vegetables and meats. Once activate, sodium chlorite becomes the most powerful anti-pathogenic known. The body then purges the pathogens using the lymphatic, bowl and urinary systems."

No, scientists DO NOT use sodium chlorite to treat HIV. Charlatans do!

"Mr. Humble said “I have no interest in money…”
Oh, yes, that’s all about money and about selling his book on “universal miracle” and the “miracle” itself, because the claim of “treating HIV, cancer, arthritis and many of the most horrific disease known” by simple treatment with sodium chlorite seems to me not just unfounded but rather antiscientific.

Mr Humble is a charlatan. Just look at one of his recommendations:
“2) Prepare the drink: In order to prepare the Miracle Mineral Solution for consumption
you need to have a glass or porcelain cup and use it to combine 5 parts (5 drops) of 10% citric
acid ( or lemon or lime juice)...”
Certainly citric acid as a reducer neutralizes most harmful oxidative affects of “the Miracle Mineral Solution” that is harmful for direct ingestion sodium chlorite.
I don’t know if you even bothered to click of the link provided yesterday. I repeat it again:
http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/conten ... a762520053
This is a proven scientific evidence of formation of carcinogens by action of chlorinating agents to Citric Acid or juices containing it.
Sodium chlorite is OK for treatment and decontamination of surfaces, fruits doorknobs, etc. but not drinking even after neutralization. It’s simply dangerous!

[expert]

Charlatans like Mr. Humble are dangerous not only because they harm people, but they also undermine world effort to find real solutions for treatment of malaria and AIDS. No wonder that some enthusiasts are trying to find ways to debunk him
http://sguforums.com/index.php?topic=26025.0

A blogger on this website http://phaelosopher.wordpress.com/2008/ ... im-humble/ criticize Mr. Humble’s false statements in great detail.

Here is an excerpt of Mr Humble’s false statements:

1.- false statement: only “bad” microbes are ‘negatively’ charged and/or pathogens cant survive alkaline environments..
2. False statement:Good bacteria cant be harmed
3. False statement- harmless salts form-well salts ARE forming BUT the falseness lies in their usefulness- the common salt that’s forming.
4. False statement- the CLO₂ deposits onto stomach walls where it enters the body like other nutrients–well first off nutrients leave the gut via small intestines NOT the stomach, secondly the acids in the stomach would react with the CLO₂ anyway.and make those SALTS long before it leaves the stomach–add HCL to your solutions and see what happens!
5. False statement–if you have nothing in the body below acid level/Ph₇ there are no ill effects–ummm what about the acids in the stomach?? and what about those good bacteria- ACIDophilus etc??there ARE things in the body below that level and theyre necessary tooFYI HEALTHY microbes like lactobacillus require Ph range of 5.8-6.6 ACIDIC and
some pathogens like clostridium do well at 6.0-7.6–that is, they thrive even with alkaline environs!!
6. False statement–no chlorine is involved–that chlorine like odor when you mix it??? chlorine!! and IF its chlorine dioxide??? still poison-matter of fact if you inhale the fumes you will be inhaling chlorine or chlorine dioxide gas and may well end up needing medical attention!
7. false statement- ingesting MMS causes Ph changes of the entire body/blood to occur–no one has shown this to happen.
- in any case, any PH changes that may occur, are very quickly rebalanced in the body,and kept within very strict levels ( different for various tissues etc) UNLESS one is so ill as to be unable and then they face a probable DEADLY outcome.
8. false statement–the nasuea/vomiting, diarrhea means a good thing–pathogens and toxins are leaving the body-maybe even a “herx”

9. False statement- Malaria has been cured in Malawi and Uganda–
-I have intimate knowledge of the malaria situation in Africa due to my daughter ( grad student of anthropology who unfortunately for my gray hair travels out of this country a LOT). and I can unequivocably say that NO cure for malaria has been done there on any large scale IF AT ALL.
10 false statement-resistance to this ( if it works) cant happen-
RESISTANCE can and does build whenever ANY microbe killer is used. period. This ClO₂ cannot and does not instantly kill every last “bad” microbe all at once…IF it did why then do you need it for so long????? the microbes that are NOT killed are very quickly reporducing and those survivors are passing along their genetic know-how to get STRONGER.
11. people are being cured–well maybe they ARE and maybe not–but not from this–from what? placebo effect perhaps
Conclusion
am I therefore saying no one should use this or any other supposed miracle cure??? NO -its not for ME to say that. BUT when we are exhorting others to take the same risks we must be VERY sure we have given them ALL of the correct information and not putting OTHERS in harms way!

I hope somebody will report Mr. Humble to FDA for making fraudulent claims about treatments and stop him from poisoning people and stealing money from them.

[NickM79]

Dear Mr. Expert and all,

I personally have used MMS up to the full dose protocol and I have Mr. Humble's book. I have only experienced mild side side effects and I was not using it to fight off any illness. I was only experimenting on myself to see how my body handled it. I personally think it is best to take it with the lime juice in water rather than mixing it with pure citric solution unless very ill, because the citric MMS does react quite nasty with bottled no-vit-c juices. Jim Humble in his book recommends using fresh non-citrus juice and I have yet to try that.

I find it interesting and amusing, Expert, that you simply went to the website that you pasted a link to and cut and pasted all the negative comments without any of the positive rebuttals in between that were made by Mr. Humble himself. Much of you final message seems to be the argument of someone else simply cut and pasted and not your own original ideas. Isn't that a little like plagiarism?

We may not understand the exact action that MMS has in the body but it apparently has been helping people. I don't take it that was you that had a daughter that went to Africa?:oops: There needs to be further scientific study, discussion, and debate on the subject. I am by no means a blind follower and would like more scientific data on the exact means of action. I may use this forum as a means of posing some more specific questions about the reaction taking place. Like what is happening when NaClO₂ is mixing with a combination of Organic citric acid which appears to be in higher proportion to ascorbic acid IN lime juice. Plus there are lots of other organic molecules that make up a fruit.

Scientists of course do not use MMS to "treat" HIV, because treating human illness is not their specialty. However they do study it. It's interesting the first thing you do, Expert, is launch a character attack on Mr. Humble without much evidence to back it up. I understand this happens often to people who have an overinflated sense of their own egos and also a poor argument. Quite likely I'm guessing, you have no personal experience using MMS in the stated context. That is left to doctors who are trained in the corporate-special-interest funded institutions that are designed to put them to eventually put them to work now serving the same medical-industrial-complex that supports and licenses them. They are trained to reject anything that has not been approved by their hierarchy. I have heard the same problem has existed in mainstream science throughout history; that some of the greatest minds were considered lunatics long before their technology was ever actually integrated into society; oftentimes not until after the end of their lives. This is not to say that doctors are not truly helping folks because we know they are to a great extent.

Of course you can't dupe all people into having such blind faith in the allopathic treatment of chronic illness, without feeding them a good portion of legitimate science along with the bad, all the while omitting legitimate alternative medicine options for people that might rather choose that route. Doesn't it make sense to start with the least invasive procedures before working your way up to drugging, surgery, and amputation?

I will be back with further comments later. This discussion is far from ended.

Thanks,

NMM

[expert]

Nick, I don’t think scientists should waste their time and study tiny differences in interactions of chlorine compounds with citric acid or lime and orange juices. It’s clear from the scientific paper that I’ve already cited twice that this reaction creates dangerous carcinogens. So, people who choose experimenting with dangerous chemicals by drinking them with all sorts of liquids are putting their lives and health in danger.
It’s hard to argue with people like you who obsessed with particular diets or pills or chemicals and change their mind. I just want other people who will read our conversation to get warning and do not fall victims of charlatans who promote their “miracles”. In the best case they will lose money, in the worst they will loose their health or they may take wrong paths in treatment of their cancer, HIV, etc.
As a scientist who developed anti-HIV and anti-hepatitis compounds, I can tell you that it’s a very difficult and not always successful process, much more difficult than preparation of a solution of a simple and cheap chemical. Charlatans are presenting it that way, and surprising number of people believes them and ignores scientific facts.
And yes, coincidently my daughter had travelled to Africa and saw suffering. After that she decided to apply to Medical School and dedicate her live to help those who suffer and dye every day from malaria, HIV, tuberculosis and other diseases that corporate world is not very anxious to take care of. I wish it was that simple as prescription of a small pill of NaClO₂ to cure all the problems.

[Funky]

It is probable that Doug Nash provided his question to this forum as bait and disquised himself as "Mr. expert" to scare people away from using MMS. He is likely a friend of the drug industry

I am an avid user of MMS and it has helped with many ailments. I am 70 years old and feel like a 30 year old. Yes, sexually too! I am widowed and have fould a 65 year old woman who obtains the benefits of chlorine dioxide more naturally than I do. I will write again to say how she does it.

I worked for many years as a design engineer for a Pulp and Paper Engineering Company. It was found true that the chlorine, used in the bleaching of white paper, did form carcinogens; most specifically: dioxins. The industry switched to bleaching with Chlorine Dioxide because carcinogens are not formed. If it was not true the EPA would not allow bleaching with chlorine dioxide. Running coffee thru white filter paper is now a safe procedure. Refute that Mr Expert!!!! Funky

[Funky]

I must say that Mr. Expert was very clever in saying that "phaelosopher" exposed the many false statements of JIm Humble. He had the nerve to list the supposed false statements of Humble.

For any one that reads this blog, please call Mr Expert's bluff and read the "phaelosophers" blog at: http://phaelosopher.wordpress.com/2008/ ... im-humble/

You all will see that Jim Humble replies to all of the accusations and shows that the acuser is the real charlatan. The accuser, "Mr user 96431," is lying and I suspect that Doug Nash, Mr. Expert and Mr. user 96431 are all the same person. A devil, who is a friend of drug companies that will lose trillions of dollars when chronic illness is cured rather than merely treated until death overtakes the afflicted. Funky here!!!

[expert]

You are doing a great disservice to this society when claiming that chronic diseases can be cured by simple and cheap chemicals. You are saying that “drug companies that will lose trillions of dollars when chronic illness is cured” by simple (and sometimes toxic) chemicals. This is not taking away drug companies’ profits since their drugs are scrutinized by FDA, and people will still buy drugs to cure cancer, HIV, etc. At the same time such claims are handy to charlatans like Jim Humble and alike who make millions on uneducated population giving them false hopes and sometimes poisoning them.
If you Google “Jim Humble” you can see that search engine immediately suggests “scam” next to his name. Some people just love to get fooled. It’s their choice. Usually these are not educated enough to use Google anyway.

As someone who worked for Pulp and Paper Engineering Company, you should know that when the paper comes to contact with people or foods and drinks it no longer contains bleach and therefore very safe to use. So your “proof” is irrelevant.

As for “Mr. Expert”, I don’t have to hide under different names. You can check my posts here. We discuss science and chemistry in particular and I dismiss any unscientific and unfounded speculations.